Recapping 242 of 242 lines from games/roleplaying/Spirit:

[Spirit] Roger says, "Heya kids"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So... I'll be here if the players would like any help getting your characters squared away."

[Spirit] Roger says, "If not, excellent; rock on."

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Heya inky. How are you feeling about your character so far?"

[Spirit] inky says, "oh yeah, I spaced on this follow-up"

[Spirit] inky says, "I guess everyone else did too"

[Spirit] inky says, "anyway, I think I'm basically done"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yep. I do have some questions about Everard though if you're up to it."

[Spirit] inky says, "let's hear it"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "What's your relationship to your sword?"

[Spirit] inky says, "I think at this point it's like a nuke"

[Spirit] inky says, "which is to say I want to avoid using it whenever possible, might have to take it out in an emergency, and definitely don't want anyone else getting their hands on it"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Hmmm. If someone said that they could make it disappear forever, what would your reaction be?"

[Spirit] inky says, "hmm"

[Spirit] inky says, "I think I'd probably go for it"

[Spirit] inky says, "I probably have some hopes of getting it cleansed back to its former glory"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Alright, sounds good. In terms of the demon therein, how animate and active do you see it? Does it have the ability to, say, exert its will over Everard and cause him to kill someone he doesn't really want to?"

[Spirit] inky says, "yeah, I think so"

[Spirit] inky says, "but he has to draw it first"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "ahoy"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yeah that sounds like about what I'm thinking. Cool."

[Spirit] inky says, "(I think he might even carry a second sword that he uses normally)"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hiya Jearl; I was just grilling inky here."

[Spirit] Jearl says, "I recommend a salt rub and close the grill llid to let some steam build up"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Okay. On a different note, how do you feel about your noble family and all that?"

[Spirit] GDorn unidles.

[Spirit] inky says, "also, I think the other reason he doesn't like to use the sword is people killed with it die in some unspecified horrible manner"

[Spirit] inky says, "like their souls are eaten or they're wracked with pain or they go to hell or something"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yeah, excellent."

[Spirit] inky says, "I think he gets on well with his family but I'm not actually sure how this is plausible"

[Spirit] inky says, "since you'd think a noble would have to stick around at home"

[Spirit] inky says, "I guess he could be a younger son"

[Spirit] Roger says, "That's fine. I'm not really concered with plausibility so much as trying to gauge whether inky the player is interested in family drama stuff."

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Jearl, GDorn -- how do you feel about your characters so far?"

[Spirit] inky says, "yeah, I'm not really interested in that as a major focus, but if it comes up occasionally, that'd be fine"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "pretty good; I'm still thinking about skills and reading the rules"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "I'm feeling very nearly done, except for my guest appearances in other novels"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "I think I'm going with lp's suggestion of two sets of skills, and an aspect either you or I could invoke to switch them"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "'True Nature Buried'"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Okay. Usually what I do as a player is look over the skills, write down any which look remotely fitting, maybe underlining any of the especially strong ones, and then kinda iteratively work at cramming it all into the pyramid."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Sure, sounds like that could work."

[Spirit] Jearl says, "The human part of Sylith has great rapport and empathy but is basically useless in a fight. The demon part is a stealthy killing machine"

[Spirit] Roger says (to GDorn), "Okay, good. If you want to just pick some Aspects you figure would probably arise in your guest session and retcon it in at some point, that should work too"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Until you Hulk Out and get to smashing things."

[Spirit] GDorn says, "incidentally: http://gdorn.nudio.net/conan/joden.html"

[Spirit] Roger says, "It's probably not a bad idea in general to keep an eye on the 'defensive' sorts of skills like Resolve and Endurance, as a bit of advice"

[Spirit] inky says, "he may not have gotten to that bit of the rules"

[Spirit] inky says, "(I mean, the one that says that resolve adds to your composure score and endurance to your health)"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "I have good endurance and fair resolve"

[Spirit] Roger says, "The 'Popular Gal' stunt from the Rapport tree is probably fitting for Sylith"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Good deal"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "I could go higher, but I wasn't really thinking Joden was much for swordplay"

[Spirit] Roger says, "The other gotcha in skills is that Alertness is also basically your static Initiative score, so keep that in mind too"

[Spirit] Roger says, "It's not just about getting stabbed with a sword; if you want your guy to be able to walk across the Great Outback for two weeks with nothing but a pointy stick, a high Endurance would reflect that, as an example"

[Spirit] GDorn asks, "more than a high Survival?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "There'd be some interaction there, yeah. A high Survival would let you find water; a high Endurance would let you carry on without it."

[Spirit] Roger says, "I think we figured out your Mysteries stunts too, if I recall"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "yeah"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "it's a little vague what I can actually do, though"

[Spirit] Roger says, "It's kinda like The Professor on Gilligan's Isalnd -- you can do (or try to do) just about anything"

[Spirit] Roger says, "But with magic instead of coconuts"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Mechanically, you can use your Mysteries score in place of any other skill, so yeah, it's pretty wide open."

[Spirit] GDorn says, "so I guess it does work to substitute it for, say, Guns, when I want to hurt somebody real bad"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "shoot BEES at them"

[Spirit] Roger exclaims, "Sure!"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Demons are /happy/ to hurt your enemies for you. More than happy. You can tell by their big toothy grin."

[Spirit] Roger asks, "So, inky, have you got The Vampire Rose all figured out mostly?"

[Spirit] inky says, "well, no"

[Spirit] Roger says, "I'm not trying to berate you; I was just wondering."

[Spirit] GDorn berates inky.

[Spirit] inky says, "hee hee"

[Spirit] Roger says, "All I mean to say is that if you'd like some help with it, well heck, that's what we're here for."

[Spirit] GDorn says, "here I am, waiting for a guest appearance in your novel, and the green room's all out of fuji water"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Would a vampire by any other name still suck my blood? Yep, apparently so."

[Spirit] inky says, "well, I think what I was imagining was some kind of sleeping beauty scenario"

[Spirit] Iason arrives, recaps.

[Spirit] inky says, "the castle overgrown with thorns"

[Spirit] inky says, "but with some kind of unpleasant twist"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "and Joden shows up at the last minute, kisses Everard, and they live happily ever after. um, wait."

[Spirit] inky says, "like maybe it's a single giant life form with the princess the lure at the center"

[Spirit] inky says, "ha ha"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "like that episode of G-Force!"

[Spirit] Jearl asks, "what does Science translate to in this setting?"

[Spirit] inky says, "or the princess is actually the vampire"

[Spirit] inky says, "waiting for adventurers to come by so she can drain their blood"

[Spirit] inky says (to Jearl), "hmm, I just put it down as a good idea"

[Spirit] inky asks, "maybe it's Alchemy?"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Did you want the defenses set up by the good guys?"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "To keep people away?"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Or more like Tomb of Horrors, where he only wants experienced souls to eat?"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "I wasn't even looking at you sheet, I am reading the skill list"

[Spirit] Jearl says, "i guess conana science is still kinda like science"

[Spirit] inky says, "apparently the spirit of the blank guy said science -> medicine"

[Spirit] inky says, "which also seems reasonable"

[Spirit] Iason says, "It could be like ballistics and engineering and farming techniques."

[Spirit] Iason says, "Maybe healing."

[Spirit] Iason says, "Timing."

[Spirit] inky says, "basically you got Academics, Science, Mysteries, and Engineering"

[Spirit] inky says, "and between them they have to cover all the learnin' type skills"

[Spirit] inky says, "I guess this says Engineering -> Craft"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Science is still sort of science, more or less"

[Spirit] Roger says, "And yeah it does have a medical bent to it in the core rules"

[Spirit] Roger says, "If you've seen The Scorpion King, that Da Vinci wannabe character is a Science guy"

[Spirit] Roger says, "With a goodly dose of Engineering, too"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Or that monkish Q character in Van Helsing"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Or the title characters in The Brothers Grimm to a fair extent, too"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So yeah, stuff like herbalism, the chemistry side of alchemy, the astronomy side of astrology, and such things"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm in terms of The Vampire Rose, I could see Joden helping Everard by laying down some Fortunetelling help"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Or more directly -- whistling up an air spirit to carry Everard up to the top of the tower, or whatnot"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Another thematic element I'm sorta toying with is the whole Faerie Realms deal; so if The Vampire Rose fits into that, go for it"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Oh, really? Hmm."

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Does that connect to anything we've come up with so far?"

[Spirit] inky says, "well, that could explain the unusually large and crazy rosebushes"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Not really; mostly I was looking at some art and thinking about things, and decided hey that could work for us"

[Spirit] Roger says, "But it's sorta drifting the genre a bit. On the other hand, Hansel and Gretel seem to sorta have a Conan vibe going on"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Yeah, I'm not seeing a strong connection there, unless the Faerie Lands are more the Infernal Realms."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm no it's sort of a related cousin"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Lovecraft is closer than Faerie, from what I've read so far."

[Spirit] Roger says, "It's like the Faerie Realms were all wild and natural and super-natural, and then the Shadow of Hell fell across it, and in the intersection we have the mortal world, corrupted and interstitial"

[Spirit] Roger says, "But thematically, yeah, the old sorcerer worshipping Set and the old hag worshipping The Green Man sorta fill similar roles"

[Spirit] Roger says, "And yeah, Innsmouth is entirely a Faerie village"

[Spirit] Roger says, "I'm not really trying to push the game in that direction but I wanted to open it up as an avenue"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Alrighty."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Especially if people are rescuing sleeping maidens from bramble-surrounded towers"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Heh."

[Spirit] Jearl says, "got to go - I should hopefully have skills down soon"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "okay, gotta run. I'll check in with Iason and inky about their novels later."

[Spirit] Roger asks, "Anyone else have any burning questions or anything?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Alright; thanks for dropping by."

[Spirit] Iason says, "Oh, lemme pull up my ideas for ritual-disrupting stunts."

[Spirit] Iason | <LI> Ritual Saboteur [Mysteries]: When attempting to disrupt a ritual by any means, the player may use 'Mysteries' instead a more appropriate skill (like Weapons or Might)

[Spirit] Iason | <LI> Ritual Subverter [Mysteries] (requires Ritual Saboteur): The player makes an attack using Mysteries vs. the person running the original ritual (even if they're not present). If the attack successfully inflicts stress, the player may instead spend a fate point to declare that some new effect that will happen as a result of the ritual. If the player knows one of the intended effects of the ritual, they may spend two fate points to replace an intended effect with an effect of their choosing.

[Spirit] Iason says, "Since I spend 3/4 of my time in the stories mucking about with someone else's rituals."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm."

[Spirit] inky says, "hmm"

[Spirit] inky asks, "are you really going to spend that much of your time in game doing that, though?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "I like the idea but I don't think rituals will come up THAT much, yeah. Hmmm."

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Well, do we want it broader? Instead of 'ritual', have 'someone else using 'Mysteries'?"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Or just say that this is the sort of thing I can do without a stunt?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hold on I'm working something up"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Specifically I'm thinking of Demons and Block Actions ( http://zork.net/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html#block-actions )"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So something like Barrier of Light: You can use Mysteries to declare a Block that blocks a Demon from affecting the natural world (and visa versa) with a +2 to your roll. The Block, once established, can be maintained throughout the scene as a Supplemental Action (a -1 to your primary actions.)"

[Spirit] Roger says, "If you see what I'm getting at with that"

[Spirit] inky says, "he doesn't want to use Mysteries, though, I think"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Yes I do."

[Spirit] inky says, "oh, wait, yes he does"

[Spirit] inky says, "sorry, swapping the other way"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Heh."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Alternative name: You Shall Not Pass"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "What's a demon, then? Does it include 'gods'?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So it could come in handy for hindering a ritual, but also when fighting a demon or trying to keep Jearl from Hulking Out or a number of situations"

[Spirit] inky says, "ha ha"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Mmmm yeah pretty much any 'gods' you're likely to encounter directly are going to be Demon enough for that"

[Spirit] inky says, "I believe in S&S there is strong precedent for saying yes"

[Spirit] Iason says, "The hindering a ritual I assume is the 'visa versa' bit."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yeah exactly"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So, yeah, big red guys with horns and flames and a pitchfork: yes. Giant tiger gnawing your face off: no. Zombies: mmmm probably not, although it might help weaken them, or stop their controller from controlling them, or something."

[Spirit] inky says, "or if you prefer "A god outgrown immediately becomes a life-destroying demon.""

[Spirit] Iason asks, "'outgrown'?"

[Spirit] inky says, "I dunno, ask Joseph Campbell"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Like the Laughing Sun God from the Teletubbies"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Ha ha ha"

[Spirit] inky says, "in S&S it reminds me of those stories about collapsed/collapsing civilizations with some weird demon-god demanding sacrifices"

[Spirit] inky says, "ha ha"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "OK, what about the subverting bit; replacing some effect with my own effect?"

[Spirit] inky says, "that would rule"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "I think that would be fine, but do you have an example of what you have in mind?"

[Spirit] Iason says, "(also, I am thinking that the Block would be on a particular aspect of the ritual thing; like the 'your soul is destroyed' part of Jearl's ritual, but the other aspect ('a demon enters you') I didn't block.)"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Yeah, my Cain story."

[Spirit] Iason says, "The first two I saw basically as blocking one aspect of the ritual, and the Cain one I saw as subverting."

[Spirit] Iason says, "(the volcano god one with 'the mountain erupts and a god is called down' and I blocked the latter)"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm the subversion angle I don't mind as being a straight-up Mysteries declaration without a stunt -- basically it's a "The Ritual is Mistranslated" or some such declaration, which I think works well."

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Isn't that independent of the character?"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Like, it's the character realizing something about the world, not the character causing a change in the world."

[Spirit] Iason says, "The former is more boring."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm yeah that's fair enough"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Although I suppose the Cain declaration is 'if I do thus and so, it will cause this other effect thingy'"

[Spirit] inky says, "yeah"

[Spirit] Iason says, "And then I try to do thus and so."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm how about something like: Whenever you inflict a consequence on someone involved in a ritual, you can apply that consequence as an Aspect to the Demon they are summoning instead"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "And then tag that aspect when trying to do the 'but it also does this' bit?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Well the Aspect is out there for everyone, so if it's Hard to Control or Likes To Burn then life just got more interesting for everyone"

[Spirit] Roger says, "You're basically disrupting the summoner's concentration so he doesn't get a good lock on the Demon"

[Spirit] Roger says, "So it might be weaker, or it might be stronger, or it might like to Devour Skin or whatnot"

[Spirit] Iason asks, "Devour skin?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Demons like all sorts of crazy things."

[Spirit] Roger says, "It's an Aspect, so it's range of possible values is pretty wide open, from Vulnerable to Silver to Wants To Cover Earth With Lava"

[Spirit] inky says, "delicious, delicious skin"

[Spirit] Iason says, "I'm still not sure how this would have played out in the Cain battle."

[Spirit] inky asks, "well, *was* a demon involved?"

[Spirit] Roger asks, "The battle at the end, you mean, with you and Cain vs. the demon?"

[Spirit] Iason says, "No, the one where I made Cain confused."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmm, yeah."

[Spirit] Iason says, "For those playing the home game: | As Iason's strength wore down, he realized Cain's confusion in the thrall of the ritual could be turned. Muttering arcane phrases and fighting with a pinch of yarrow blossom in his fists, he insinuated that it was he that wanted the blood of the changeling, and that Cain was in fact trying to defend it. Suddenly breaking from the fight, Cain scooped up the changeling and ran."

[Spirit] inky says, "hmm"

[Spirit] inky says, "that sounds more like a Deceit roll"

[Spirit] inky says, "or some kind of social confusion thing"

[Spirit] inky says, "than actually modifying the ritual"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Didn't you read the bit about the yarrow blossom? ;-)"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Maybe it's just as simple as 'When it comes to Demons, rituals, and the people involved in them, you can use Mysteries in place of any active social skill (Deceit, Empathy, Intimidation, or Rapport.)"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Let's recap a bit what Iason has done:"

[Spirit] Roger | disrupted Sylith's ritual
[Spirit] Roger | (partially)
[Spirit] Roger |  ritually prayed to his gods and got teleported into danger
[Spirit] Roger | fooled Cain in the middle of a ritual
[Spirit] Roger | kicked demon ass

[Spirit] Iason says, "That sort of works, but my basic idea was that in some situations, I could twist the power at work to do something similar but different from what it was already doing. Oh, hey. Maybe if I can tell what an Aspect on someone/something is that's there due to a Mysteries-thing, I can attempt to replace that Aspect with a similar Aspect. The difficulty level of doing so is set by the GM, based on how similar the replacement is to the original."

[Spirit] Roger says, "So... hmmm. As far as fooling Cain goes, I think I would have said in game, sure, make a Deceit roll and take a +2 for using your Secrets of the Snake Cult to pull some mystical hoojoo on him"

[Spirit] inky says, "hmm, really? it reads to me a lot like you were bluffing Cain, not enchanting him"

[Spirit] Iason says (to inky), "In my head, at least, the arcane mutterings and the yarrow blossom were the things I was using to twist the Confusion on him so that it was a different type of Confusion."

[Spirit] Roger says, "I like the underlying idea of 'whenever you discover an Aspect that is 'mystical', you can attempt to replace it with the Aspect of your choice, as per a declaration'"

[Spirit] inky says, "oh aha"

[Spirit] Iason says (to Roger), "To go back over the list, my idea of what I was using for each (based on what we've come up with so far) is: disrupted Sylith's ritual: Block (Mysteries). Teleported into Danger: Mysteries, plus a Astrological declaration (The Time Is Right). Stopped Volcano God from being summoned: Block (Mysteries) Fooled Cain: the Replace Aspect thing. Fought Demon: Fists."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yeah, looks about right"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Or maybe we can do with a Mysteries version of It's Academic: http://zork.net/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html#it-s-academic-academics"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Which allows you to drop a whole crapload of Aspects on somethin"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Oh, interesting."

[Spirit] Roger says, "I'm predisposed by Aspect: Lazy Ass to try to re-use existing Stutns"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Heh."

[Spirit] Iason says, "No, it's good to follow the existing models."

[Spirit] Iason says, "Searcing this page for 'replace', I found something vaguely similar in 'Art as Performance'"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Which says 'replacing an aspect is +3'"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Hmmm yeah I'd be happy to use that as a guideline"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Actually, it looks like it'd be +4, since the existing one gets a +1 all by itself."

[Spirit] Iason says, "I could see where a really powerful ritual that did 5 things (had 5 aspects, say), would be harder to add to/subvert."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Sure but I probably gave you a +2 because Cain was already in a suggestable state, or something"

[Spirit] Iason says, "Yeah."

[Spirit] Iason asks, "So are we saying the basic thing of adding aspects to a mystically-affected thing is a non-stunt deal, and I could take a stunt similar to It's Academic to make my ability to do that more powerful?"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Yeah; this stunt allows you to pile on a crapload more aspects and, yeah, probably in effect allows you to replace an aspect rather than just merely add a new one"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Or alternatively 'declare non-aspect facts' which also sounds pretty useful."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Anyway I think that's solid enough to run with for now; we'll see if it turns out to not do what we want it to"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Anything else, or shall we wrap this up, such as it is."

[Spirit] Iason says, "I think I'"

[Spirit] Iason says, "er, I think I'm good! Thanks."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Any time."

[Spirit] GDorn says, "back"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Oh hi"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "looks like today was still more crunchy than background-y"

[Spirit] Roger says, "Mmmm largely yeah."

[Spirit] Roger says, "I don't know if that's because people need more help with crunch, or if group background still kinda freaks people out, or what"

[Spirit] GDorn says, "yeah, background is pretty scary. having this structure was incredibly helpful, though."

[Spirit] Roger says, "Good to hear"

Recapped 242 of 242 lines from games/roleplaying/Spirit.